Deleting the /r/golang subreddit
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Brad Fitzpatrick
Nov 24, 2016, 6:53:32 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds
In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see dozen news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.
That is so beyond unethical and immature, I no longer want anything to do with that site. I will be deleting my account on Reddit after backing up my content, and I will no longer be a moderator of /r/golang.
If other moderators of /r/golang feel strongly that it should remain, I suppose you're welcome to keep it going.
But if the other moderators want to abandon it and focus our conversation elsewhere (or build a replacement), I'm happy to just delete /r/golang.
Opinions?
Brad Fitzpatrick
Nov 24, 2016, 6:54:40 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds, Brian Ketelsen, Damian Gryski
[+bketelson, dgryski]
Brian Ketelsen
Nov 24, 2016, 6:56:47 PM11/24/16
to Brad Fitzpatrick, golan...@googlegroups.com, Andrew Gerrand, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, dsym...@golang.org, dgr...@gmail.com
Kill it.
It's a wretched hive of scum and villainy. The Go subreddit was the only thing similar to human and it is downright painful most of the time.
Adam Langley
Nov 24, 2016, 7:02:22 PM11/24/16
to Brian Ketelsen, Brad Fitzpatrick, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, cb...@golang.org, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds, Damian Gryski
(If we just delete it, that may free the name to be squatted on by others. I've no knowledge of how Reddit works but setting a moderation bit or the like might be more effective in shutting it down.)
Brad Fitzpatrick
Nov 24, 2016, 7:03:09 PM11/24/16
to Adam Langley, Brian Ketelsen, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds, Damian Gryski
Agreed. Maybe we can just make an auto-reject moderator bot for it, making sure it has no content.
Dave Cheney
Nov 24, 2016, 7:13:33 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Delete it.
David Anderson
Nov 24, 2016, 7:16:19 PM11/24/16
to Brad Fitzpatrick, Adam Langley, Brian Ketelsen, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds, Damian Gryski
I believe you can mark the subreddit as private. That'll keep the name parked, but only allow access to moderator-approved users.
- Dave
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Brian Ketelsen
Nov 24, 2016, 7:43:03 PM11/24/16
to Brad Fitzpatrick, golan...@googlegroups.com, Andrew Gerrand, cb...@golang.org, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, dsym...@golang.org, dgr...@gmail.com
Pietro Gagliardi
Nov 24, 2016, 8:04:32 PM11/24/16
to Brian Ketelsen, Brad Fitzpatrick, golan...@googlegroups.com, Andrew Gerrand, cb...@golang.org, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, dsym...@golang.org, dgr...@gmail.com
On Nov 24, 2016, at 7:42 PM, Brian Ketelsen <bket...@gmail.com> wrote:
Brian Ketelsen
Nov 24, 2016, 8:07:17 PM11/24/16
to Pietro Gagliardi, Brad Fitzpatrick, golan...@googlegroups.com, Andrew Gerrand, cb...@golang.org, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, dsym...@golang.org, dgr...@gmail.com
I'm happy to "donate" a subdomain of gopheracademy.com to the cause if existing sites aren't viable. Especially with the end of year blog blitz coming, it's a very high traffic site.
Will Jessop
Nov 24, 2016, 8:07:32 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts
Perhaps it would be fairer to ask this question in /r/golang instead?
Personally I like getting my Go (and Ruby, climbing, StarCitizen, EliteDangerous, VR and robotics) news there. I'm no fan of Reddit overall, but for me, and I suspect a number of the other people who use the sub, it works well for what we use it for.
mdla...@gmail.com
Nov 24, 2016, 8:43:28 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Hey all, I can certainly understand your concerns regarding reddit, but I do think that the idea of "deleting /r/golang" is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.
I can't say I am thrilled about the situation, but myself and many others have been using /r/golang as our primary Go news source for years now. As far as I am aware, there is no suitable replacement for it at this time.
I am personally willing to evaluate and trial other options, such as a new Gopher Academy site or similar as bketelsen mentioned, but at this time, I don't think an immediate deletion of /r/golang is the correct solution to this problem.
It's worth noting that many on /r/golang are already strongly against this proposal as well:
https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5eqs64/proposal_to_delete_rgolang/
Just my two cents. Thanks for your time.
- mdlayher
I can't say I am thrilled about the situation, but myself and many others have been using /r/golang as our primary Go news source for years now. As far as I am aware, there is no suitable replacement for it at this time.
I am personally willing to evaluate and trial other options, such as a new Gopher Academy site or similar as bketelsen mentioned, but at this time, I don't think an immediate deletion of /r/golang is the correct solution to this problem.
It's worth noting that many on /r/golang are already strongly against this proposal as well:
https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5eqs64/proposal_to_delete_rgolang/
Just my two cents. Thanks for your time.
- mdlayher
Florin Pățan
Nov 24, 2016, 8:51:48 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts
Rather than going with the nuclear option, imho, I'd be happy to continue running it if the Go team backs out of it and / ir other moderators. I'll make it clear it's unofficial and so on.
Maybe we should consider upgrading golang.org to a more useful website? Includes a list of meetups, maybe even suggest it based on geoip, add some more blog posts, be it from the team or guest posts, show cases from the community, success stories and so on?
We have a forum, https://forum.golangbridge.org, which can be use to replace the sub-reddit as well as a Slack team and an IRC channel. Make them more visibile on golang.org and encourage people to use any of them.
Robert Melton
Nov 24, 2016, 8:54:34 PM11/24/16
to golan...@googlegroups.com
I think it is worth taking a moments pause and remember that community is over 25,000+ gophers. Those are just subscribed users, excludes just people passing through or who don't formally subscribe (RSS or other means).
I absolutely agree you shouldn't have to maintain something you have a moral stance against. Additionally if the core Go team thinks it shouldn't be an official place, by all means, eject it form the go community space.
That said, the idea of intentionally squatting on a namespace to kill off a community of 25,000+ gophers feels -- gross. It feels vindictive not to the CEO of Reddit, but to the 25,000 gophers.
Additional, I suspect it will be ineffective. A new subreddit will popup and rebuild /r/golang2 or /r/goproglang or whatever. If you want to stop maintaining it -- at least at this point you could hand it off to some experienced reddit users who could continue to try to make it a worthwhile place and show respect (even in disagreement) to those gophers who happen to like a place that you may not.
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James Aguilar
Nov 24, 2016, 9:22:38 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts
Another vote for temperance here. The CEO making a scumbag move that affected a tiny handful of posts seems barely related to deleting a subreddit. If some folks don't want to support Reddit, that seems reasonable. It seems less reasonable to disrupt a community without that community's consent.
At least, don't make the decision without waiting for reasonable feedback after the holiday.
Jonathan Fraser
Nov 24, 2016, 9:28:03 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts
I think one of the reasons that the editing of posts by /u/spez is considered such a betrayal is that we view these forums as owned by the contributors and the community at large. It's seen as an invasion that he has such an authority (of course he did but we like to imagine he doesn't). However, this expectation, that power won't be used to further personal vendettas, applies just as much to the moderators of /r/golang and the Go team as it does to the reddit admins. To me, the decision to throw away a community of some 25 thousand people on a whim seems to be just as big a betrayal of trust. To betray the golang community in such a way, in order to protest the reddit admins betrayal of the reddit community as a whole seems a bit hypocritical.
Jon
Seth Ammons
Nov 24, 2016, 9:31:38 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts
This feels knee jerk. That subreddit is my primary source for Go community news and developments.
Nathaniel Nutter
Nov 24, 2016, 9:57:22 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts, brad...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org, dgr...@gmail.com
Are all 25,171 subscribers scum and villainy? As a someone that reads /r/golang I've somehow managed not to come to the same conclusion.
Matt Joiner
Nov 24, 2016, 9:57:32 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
I don't believe technical forum moderators should be abusing their position to project their ethical standpoints onto users. If users don't like Reddit, they can just not participate. If the moderators don't like it, step down.
Brad Fitzpatrick
Nov 24, 2016, 10:03:19 PM11/24/16
to Nathaniel Nutter, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds, Damian Gryski
On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 6:57 PM, Nathaniel Nutter <i...@nnutter.com> wrote:
Are all 25,171 subscribers scum and villainy? As a someone that reads /r/golang I've somehow managed not to come to the same conclusion.
I never said that.
Brad Fitzpatrick
Nov 24, 2016, 10:07:22 PM11/24/16
to Matt Joiner, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds
On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 6:57 PM, Matt Joiner <anac...@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't believe technical forum moderators should be abusing their position to project their ethical standpoints onto users. If users don't like Reddit, they can just not participate. If the moderators don't like it, step down.
The question is what to do with /r/golang when all moderators of it want to leave.
I don't think we want an unmaintained /r/golang that looks to be an official Go space.
When /r/news had drama and people split off, /r/uncensorednews started off okay for a second and then turned into a clusterf*ck.
I don't want /r/golang to turn into crap while looking like it's official.
So I'd prefer /r/golang become dormant and users go to wherever they like, be it the Go Forum, voat, or /r/unofficialgolang. Or we find an open source Reddit clone and run an instance for just Go. There are many things I like about the Reddit voting & thread model & UI over, say, the Go Forum.
Nothing will happen immediately, but it's clear that we now need a plan for what to do with /r/golang.
Paddy Foran
Nov 24, 2016, 10:57:04 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts
> Or we find an open source Reddit clone
I admit my Reddit knowledge is a bit out of date, but I thought/think Reddit IS open source?
https://github.com/reddit/reddit
(I'm 100% in support of not having a subreddit)
Seth Ammons
Nov 24, 2016, 11:06:12 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts
Brad, are there issues beyond the CEO of Reddit betraying trust that are driving the official mods away?
Nate Finch
Nov 24, 2016, 11:23:09 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
This would be an incredibly immature and materially harmful thing to do to the Go community.
If you want to wash your hands of the group, do so, but don't burn down the house the rest of us are living in.
Nate Finch
Nov 24, 2016, 11:39:38 PM11/24/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Yes, the CEO did a really shitty thing. If we burned down the website of every company where someone in power did something shitty, we'd have no websites left.
If you don't want to moderate, step down. Let the current moderators choose replacements. If you want to maintain the ability to shut it down if it becomes a cesspool, then just don't go to r/golang unless you hear it's going south and nuke it when it is going down. It doesn't feel like a cesspool right now, to me. Maybe moderators see a lot more of that, I don't know. I highly doubt the CEO of reddit is going to go slumming in r/golang and edit our posts about yet another web framework or why go should really have tagged unions.
Reddit is an incredibly useful resource that has a very large userbase to leverage with a familiar interface for a ton of people. If you want to makes something better, by all means make something better. But don't drive our bus into a lake without finding alternate transportation for everyone currently riding.
Make another official site that isn't an abandonware mailing list, give it official status, make the go team be active there, and I'm sure people will flock to it.
Craig Weber
Nov 25, 2016, 12:11:20 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
Another vote for temperance. If this is really unrelated to the CEO fiasco but instead about what to do when the mods want to leave, as others have mentioned the obvious choice seems to be "find a trustworthy, interested successor". I don't see any reason to go nuclear, especially when this forum is widely used by so many in a largely constructive fashion. It's particularly concerning that this proposal wasn't posted to the reddit community even as a courtesy; it's kind of hard to interpret this charitably.
Best regards,
Craig
Charles Haynes
Nov 25, 2016, 12:18:57 AM11/25/16
to Nate Finch, golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
As one of the 25,000 who is also appalled by the CEO's behavior I full support the decision of the official forum moderators to want to leave Reddit.
I suggest making it private and moderated and effectively closing it. If something else springs up, all well and good.
-- Charlea
On Fri., 25 Nov. 2016, 4:02 pm Nate Finch, <nate....@gmail.com> wrote:
This would be an incredibly immature and materially harmful thing to do to the Go community.If you want to wash your hands of the group, do so, but don't burn down the house the rest of us are living in.
--
Florian Weimer
Nov 25, 2016, 12:24:28 AM11/25/16
to Brad Fitzpatrick, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds, Brian Ketelsen, Damian Gryski
* Brad Fitzpatrick:
> In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see
> dozen news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.
>
> That is so beyond unethical and immature,
Was it immature because they didn't make any money out of it, at least
not directly? Modifying user-generated content without informed
consent is standard business practice. You must be aware of that.
(Many people who read this will see totally misleading ads next to
this post, for instance, and I obviously never agreed to that.)
It was a bad prank for sure. But it was just a prank.
> In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see
> dozen news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.
>
> That is so beyond unethical and immature,
not directly? Modifying user-generated content without informed
consent is standard business practice. You must be aware of that.
(Many people who read this will see totally misleading ads next to
this post, for instance, and I obviously never agreed to that.)
It was a bad prank for sure. But it was just a prank.
Dave Cheney
Nov 25, 2016, 12:26:40 AM11/25/16
to Florian Weimer, Brad Fitzpatrick, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds, Brian Ketelsen, Damian Gryski
>
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Brad Fitzpatrick
Nov 25, 2016, 12:28:27 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds
To be clear, this is just my opinion. Nothing is happening immediately here. I want to talk with all the existing moderators first.
I also want to understand whether the Go project considers /r/golang an official space. The fact that the sidebar says "If you encounter an issue, please mail con...@golang.org" suggests to me that it IS an official space.
If it's NOT an official space, and if all moderators want to leave, then the decision is easy: give it to new moderators and let whatever happens happen.
But if Go DOES consider it an official space, then I would argue it shouldn't be. I no longer think the platform is a good place to be associated with. And in this case, we need to decide what to do with /r/golang (make it private, delete it, pass on ownership and request that it be labeled unofficial in the sidebar, etc).
I understand there are many users there. I was one of them. There are many things I like about the Reddit UI and voting system. I would love to see a replacement available first before we decide on anything.
I probably should've started this thread in private with the other moderators so I had more information to share when I mailed golang-nuts@.
On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Brad Fitzpatrick <brad...@golang.org> wrote:
In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see dozen news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.
Brad Fitzpatrick
Nov 25, 2016, 12:31:32 AM11/25/16
to Florian Weimer, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds, Brian Ketelsen, Damian Gryski
That is a ridiculous argument. The two situations are not even comparable.
And if you don't like your MUA, use a different one.
thegreate...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 12:39:34 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
I am too using /r/golang as main source of go related news and information. However, I would gladly switch to a new resource especially considering the fact that most interesting information comes from mods.
On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 12:53:32 AM UTC+1, bradfitz wrote:
In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see dozen news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.
Jared Bydeley
Nov 25, 2016, 12:39:34 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
Or appoint new mods, keep ownership and just make sure the sidebar says "The Unofficial Go Subreddit". Deleting / locking down /r/golang is a terrible idea. Seriously disappointed in the Golang team for considering this a solution.
Seth Hoenig
Nov 25, 2016, 12:39:34 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
> The question is what to do with /r/golang when all moderators of it want to leave.
/r/golang was founded by a non Googler, non Go team member. The subreddit was fine before you guys took over. It'll be fine if you leave. There is a pretty clear precedent set by the Go project for community guidelines. I do no think it is fair to assume the subreddit will turn into a cesspool without you.
> I don't think we want an unmaintained /r/golang that looks to be an official Go space.
> I don't want /r/golang to turn into crap while looking like it's official.
> So I'd prefer /r/golang become dormant and users go to wherever they like, be it the Go Forum, voat, or /r/unofficialgolang. Or we find an open source Reddit clone and run an instance for just Go. There are many things I like about the Reddit voting & thread model & UI over, say, the Go Forum.
> Nothing will happen immediately, but it's clear that we now need a plan for what to do with /r/golang.
aj.l...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 12:39:35 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Shutting down the subreddit is an extremely petty action. I'm genuinely surprised that a representative of Google and Golang would even get involved in such a heated way, in particular since Google is going through a fairly pivotal moment in terms of company focus.
I run and am currently migrating a fairly large system (several hundred VM's) to Google Cloud. I've also rewritten a large (several billion hits a day) application in Golang for performance reasons. Do I need to be worried that some hot head is going to pull the entire company away from XYZ at the drop of a hat?
Scary.
hector.j...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 12:39:36 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
So far comments on https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/5eqs64/proposal_to_delete_rgolang/ are unanimously against a shutdown.
Victor Vrantchan
Nov 25, 2016, 12:39:36 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
I believe you can make a community private. The /r/golang name will be preserved, but no-one can access.
n8he...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 12:39:41 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
This is my first post here. I wouldn't have known about the thread if it weren't for r/golang.
I'm interested in learning more about the language, but as a very green hobbyist without much free time, much of my Go news comes from interesting tidbits that come up in gotimefm, hacker news, and most of all r/golang.
I would definitely be bummed if r/golang went away.
I'm interested in learning more about the language, but as a very green hobbyist without much free time, much of my Go news comes from interesting tidbits that come up in gotimefm, hacker news, and most of all r/golang.
I would definitely be bummed if r/golang went away.
Jon Calhoun
Nov 25, 2016, 12:39:41 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
A few things I think are worth considering:
a. If r/golang is deleted, what is going to stop someone else from creating another go oriented subreddit? And if this happens, will people like bradfitz having less control be a good thing?
Sure, a new subreddit might not grow as quickly without any official support, but I doubt it will just go away and never reappear in some shape or form, and I think giving up the moderation to any random person who creates the subreddit is a bad idea.
b. Forums and reddit serve a different purpose for me. Something like https://golangnews.com/ could replace what I get out of reddit, but a forum won't. I use reddit becuase it is a great place to discover articles that others are voting on in some capacity to help filter the bad from the good. I also appreciate it as an author as a way to help share my own writing.
The reddit community might be toxic in a lot of ways, but I suspect that getting 25k+ people to create an account on a new service is going to be hard, especially if that new service has the risk of similar issues.
The only way I see an alternative option working is if it is officially maintained by the Go team in some way, and I really would dislike seeing r/golang shut down without a viable alternative.
Having said all of that, I am not opposed to a change, and I think a more viable path to making a change would be:
1. Don't delete the subreddit, but stop officially supporting it (ie delete links to it on github or wherever else)
2. Come up with a viable & trustworthy alternative and release it
3. Start pointing people to the alternative, including in the subreddit (stickied post?), but don't delete the subreddit.
Just my 2 cents.
- Jon
a. If r/golang is deleted, what is going to stop someone else from creating another go oriented subreddit? And if this happens, will people like bradfitz having less control be a good thing?
Sure, a new subreddit might not grow as quickly without any official support, but I doubt it will just go away and never reappear in some shape or form, and I think giving up the moderation to any random person who creates the subreddit is a bad idea.
b. Forums and reddit serve a different purpose for me. Something like https://golangnews.com/ could replace what I get out of reddit, but a forum won't. I use reddit becuase it is a great place to discover articles that others are voting on in some capacity to help filter the bad from the good. I also appreciate it as an author as a way to help share my own writing.
The reddit community might be toxic in a lot of ways, but I suspect that getting 25k+ people to create an account on a new service is going to be hard, especially if that new service has the risk of similar issues.
The only way I see an alternative option working is if it is officially maintained by the Go team in some way, and I really would dislike seeing r/golang shut down without a viable alternative.
Having said all of that, I am not opposed to a change, and I think a more viable path to making a change would be:
1. Don't delete the subreddit, but stop officially supporting it (ie delete links to it on github or wherever else)
2. Come up with a viable & trustworthy alternative and release it
3. Start pointing people to the alternative, including in the subreddit (stickied post?), but don't delete the subreddit.
Just my 2 cents.
- Jon
maxim.ku...@ostrovok.ru
Nov 25, 2016, 12:39:41 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
Reddit is surely a toxic community, but this subreddit in particular used to be the best way to promote my work and gain attention. Also Golang Weekly as far as I guessed uses the vote scores to easily pick the top-trended topics for their digest.
I don't understand why the entire community must deal with consequences of that a few of moderators were offended somehow. The good folks including me will lose the main publication platform and one of the knowledge exchange places. The value of golang nuts mailing list is overrated, nobody reads the package announces here, or the set of legit categories of the packages is quite limited.
If current moderators can't bear the duty no more, somebody from the community may be elected instead. Acting like a dog in a manger is super counter-productive there and may cause a much more devastating effect to the whole Go community (even outside US). I'm a bit scared that such course of actions as described there is even an option for you guys. :(
I don't understand why the entire community must deal with consequences of that a few of moderators were offended somehow. The good folks including me will lose the main publication platform and one of the knowledge exchange places. The value of golang nuts mailing list is overrated, nobody reads the package announces here, or the set of legit categories of the packages is quite limited.
If current moderators can't bear the duty no more, somebody from the community may be elected instead. Acting like a dog in a manger is super counter-productive there and may cause a much more devastating effect to the whole Go community (even outside US). I'm a bit scared that such course of actions as described there is even an option for you guys. :(
Eric Black
Nov 25, 2016, 12:39:41 AM11/25/16
to Brian Ketelsen, Brad Fitzpatrick, golan...@googlegroups.com, Andrew Gerrand, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, dsym...@golang.org, dgr...@gmail.com
As far as language/programming/technology subs go the golang sub is about the only one worth reading. The moderation team (I'm assuming) does a great job of curating the content there. Reddit is a pretty good place for stuff like this because it's accessible and has an easy way to consume content. The comment system works well (upvote / downvote aren't relevant, just the threading).
My personal take is that we don't really know all of the facts about what happened. The actions in question are unacceptable regardless of the circumstances and it's a very juvenile thing to do. I really don't care. Reddit has never had any level of integrity and as far as I'm concerned never will. The subs I visit are for the content and content alone; it's very rare that the comment section for most subs has any value at all.
As a non-active member of the golang community (not a content creator, don't contribute to libs, moderate anything, etc) I would hate to see this sub go over something like this. I feel like it's a very emotional response that's going to leave a gap in the community.
Apart from deleting the sub, what other actions are suggested? I know it's not your responsibility (Brad F.) to come up with one. I would like to see some suggestions outside of a mailing list though.
Eric
My personal take is that we don't really know all of the facts about what happened. The actions in question are unacceptable regardless of the circumstances and it's a very juvenile thing to do. I really don't care. Reddit has never had any level of integrity and as far as I'm concerned never will. The subs I visit are for the content and content alone; it's very rare that the comment section for most subs has any value at all.
As a non-active member of the golang community (not a content creator, don't contribute to libs, moderate anything, etc) I would hate to see this sub go over something like this. I feel like it's a very emotional response that's going to leave a gap in the community.
Apart from deleting the sub, what other actions are suggested? I know it's not your responsibility (Brad F.) to come up with one. I would like to see some suggestions outside of a mailing list though.
Eric
On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Brian Ketelsen <bket...@gmail.com> wrote:
Kill it.It's a wretched hive of scum and villainy. The Go subreddit was the only thing similar to human and it is downright painful most of the time.
On 11/24/2016 6:54:25 PM, Brad Fitzpatrick <brad...@golang.org> wrote:
[+bketelson, dgryski]
On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Brad Fitzpatrick <brad...@golang.org> wrote:In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see dozen news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.That is so beyond unethical and immature, I no longer want anything to do with that site. I will be deleting my account on Reddit after backing up my content, and I will no longer be a moderator of /r/golang.If other moderators of /r/golang feel strongly that it should remain, I suppose you're welcome to keep it going.But if the other moderators want to abandon it and focus our conversation elsewhere (or build a replacement), I'm happy to just delete /r/golang.Opinions?
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Florian Hines
Nov 25, 2016, 12:39:41 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
On /r/fantasy and /r/books I've gotten the chance to interact with some of my favorite authors...not just on special occasions but because they're core members of the community.
On /r/woodworking people were endlessly helpful when I tried to pick up woodworking as a hobby.
When school starts redditors help out and outfit classrooms with supplies. Reddit is what got me into charitable giving.
There are 1000's of people that depend on the MS/Diabetes/Aids/F***Cancer/etc subreddits for their support systems.
For every crappy subreddit there's one or more to balance the scales.
Saying Reddit is filled with nothing but scum and villainy and that /r/golang was the only one similar to human is incredibly insulting to 100's of thousands of us, particularly because /r/golang isn't a very good community. A community comes from and grows from its leadership and from its core...seems like /r/golang has cultivated exactly the community it deserves.
On /r/woodworking people were endlessly helpful when I tried to pick up woodworking as a hobby.
When school starts redditors help out and outfit classrooms with supplies. Reddit is what got me into charitable giving.
There are 1000's of people that depend on the MS/Diabetes/Aids/F***Cancer/etc subreddits for their support systems.
For every crappy subreddit there's one or more to balance the scales.
Saying Reddit is filled with nothing but scum and villainy and that /r/golang was the only one similar to human is incredibly insulting to 100's of thousands of us, particularly because /r/golang isn't a very good community. A community comes from and grows from its leadership and from its core...seems like /r/golang has cultivated exactly the community it deserves.
Florian Weimer
Nov 25, 2016, 12:53:42 AM11/25/16
to Dave Cheney, Brad Fitzpatrick, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds, Brian Ketelsen, Damian Gryski
* Dave Cheney:
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Florian Weimer <f...@deneb.enyo.de> wrote:
>> * Brad Fitzpatrick:
>>
>>> In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see
>>> dozen news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.
>>>
>>> That is so beyond unethical and immature,
>>
>> Was it immature because they didn't make any money out of it, at least
>> not directly? Modifying user-generated content without informed
>> consent is standard business practice. You must be aware of that.
>> (Many people who read this will see totally misleading ads next to
>> this post, for instance, and I obviously never agreed to that.)
>>
>> It was a bad prank for sure. But it was just a prank.
>
> Do you normalise the behaviour of all men, or only those at the C level?
Sorry, I don't understand the question. Is this some sort of “Have
you stopped beating your wife?” challenge?
And regarding the immature/prank aspect, didn't Reddit do user name
replacement before, as an April Fool's joke? Which explains why the
code to do this was there in the first place?
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Florian Weimer <f...@deneb.enyo.de> wrote:
>> * Brad Fitzpatrick:
>>
>>> In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see
>>> dozen news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.
>>>
>>> That is so beyond unethical and immature,
>>
>> Was it immature because they didn't make any money out of it, at least
>> not directly? Modifying user-generated content without informed
>> consent is standard business practice. You must be aware of that.
>> (Many people who read this will see totally misleading ads next to
>> this post, for instance, and I obviously never agreed to that.)
>>
>> It was a bad prank for sure. But it was just a prank.
>
> Do you normalise the behaviour of all men, or only those at the C level?
you stopped beating your wife?” challenge?
And regarding the immature/prank aspect, didn't Reddit do user name
replacement before, as an April Fool's joke? Which explains why the
code to do this was there in the first place?
Peter Bourgon
Nov 25, 2016, 1:29:21 AM11/25/16
to Brad Fitzpatrick, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Brad Fitzpatrick <brad...@golang.org> wrote:
> In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see dozen
> news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.
That would be a dramatic overreaction, and a real shame.
> In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see dozen
> news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.
> That is so beyond unethical and immature, I no longer want anything to do
> with that site. I will be deleting my account on Reddit after backing up my
> content, and I will no longer be a moderator of /r/golang.
>
> If other moderators of /r/golang feel strongly that it should remain, I
> suppose you're welcome to keep it going.
>
> But if the other moderators want to abandon it and focus our conversation
> elsewhere (or build a replacement), I'm happy to just delete /r/golang.
>
> Opinions?
>
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brad clawsie
Nov 25, 2016, 1:41:55 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
I am glad you are discussing this here instead of privately with the mods...which in my mind would have been as regrettable as what /u/spez did. One reason I like Reddit is that it offers an independent power structure to the cliques that can emerge through official channels. If an alternative is desired, it should also be independent of golang.org so we have a forum where self-selected groups don't hold any special power. Frankly gopheracademy doesn't seem appropriate...I would prefer a service where we all start off with zero karma.
Christoph Berger
Nov 25, 2016, 1:44:11 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
Deleting /r/golang means destroying a very active community.
Deleting /r/golang means deleting years of helpful answers, fruitful discussions, and useful links.
Deleting /r/golang means thousands of seach engine results becoming stale.
Deleting /r/golang means making Go less visible to the world.
Deleting /r/golang means deleting years of helpful answers, fruitful discussions, and useful links.
Deleting /r/golang means thousands of seach engine results becoming stale.
Deleting /r/golang means making Go less visible to the world.
Please don't.
Eric Black
Nov 25, 2016, 1:45:12 AM11/25/16
to Brad Fitzpatrick, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds
Brad,
Again I want to applaud the phenomenal job the moderation staff does on /r/golang. The team really makes it a useful resource. It's become a daily part of my routine as well as countless others.
Seeing how this thread has blown up I would like to suggest we put this to some sort of vote if the move is to actually remove the sub. I would argue that it's a valuable resource for many people. As other have noted there's a substantial user base and I fear that if the sub is removed it will negatively impact the community. My opinion is that since this highly debated, polarizing topic, having some form of closure or an official discourse of some kind to make sure the decision is very intentional and clearly stated.
You're also mentioning association with the official golang organization, so things get a bit muddy there (I think?) as far as how a vote would work. I appreciate you reaching out to a larger audience. Is there an official way to do this, or is one needed?
I would be interested in hearing what your and others thoughts are on this.
- Eric
Again I want to applaud the phenomenal job the moderation staff does on /r/golang. The team really makes it a useful resource. It's become a daily part of my routine as well as countless others.
Seeing how this thread has blown up I would like to suggest we put this to some sort of vote if the move is to actually remove the sub. I would argue that it's a valuable resource for many people. As other have noted there's a substantial user base and I fear that if the sub is removed it will negatively impact the community. My opinion is that since this highly debated, polarizing topic, having some form of closure or an official discourse of some kind to make sure the decision is very intentional and clearly stated.
You're also mentioning association with the official golang organization, so things get a bit muddy there (I think?) as far as how a vote would work. I appreciate you reaching out to a larger audience. Is there an official way to do this, or is one needed?
I would be interested in hearing what your and others thoughts are on this.
- Eric
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Linus Drumbler
Nov 25, 2016, 2:07:16 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Moderators of a subreddit can choose to have "restricted submissions", so that only approved submitters can post. This will fill the purpose of disabling new content while still keeping the old content available.
Henrik Johansson
Nov 25, 2016, 2:07:58 AM11/25/16
to Eric Black, Brad Fitzpatrick, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds
Seriously if the community is really a community then it will pop up in another form. If not then it was never really a community to begin with.
I agree with Brad that this isn't something I want to condone. In fact if people stopped using services with mgmt like this more often then crap like this might disappear. We vote with our feet I say.
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Viktor Kojouharov
Nov 25, 2016, 2:38:51 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Or, you should just leave, stop saying /r/golang is an official go channel, and leave it to its fate. I see no reason to delete it whatsoever.
wilk
Nov 25, 2016, 2:47:59 AM11/25/16
to golan...@googlegroups.com
On 25-11-2016, Linus Drumbler wrote:
> ------=_Part_1058_1225835188.1480057636020
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="----=_Part_1059_1164393322.1480057636021"
>
> ------=_Part_1059_1164393322.1480057636021
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
--
William
> ------=_Part_1058_1225835188.1480057636020
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="----=_Part_1059_1164393322.1480057636021"
>
> ------=_Part_1059_1164393322.1480057636021
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Moderators of a subreddit can choose to have "restricted submissions", so
> that only approved submitters can post. This will fill the purpose of
> disabling new content while still keeping the old content available.
+1
> Moderators of a subreddit can choose to have "restricted submissions", so
> that only approved submitters can post. This will fill the purpose of
> disabling new content while still keeping the old content available.
--
William
Ainar Garipov
Nov 25, 2016, 2:59:19 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Please no. Google Groups is awful, Reddit's /r/golang is where I get most of my Go news. I don't want to sift through a forum with no voting system, and awful and slow overly-JS-ed design.
Konstantin Khomoutov
Nov 25, 2016, 3:21:00 AM11/25/16
to Ainar Garipov, golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 23:59:18 -0800 (PST)
Ainar Garipov <gugl.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Please no. Google Groups is awful, Reddit's /r/golang is where I get
> most of my Go news. I don't want to sift through a forum with no
> voting system, and awful and slow overly-JS-ed design.
On a side note I continue to wonder why people struggle with crappy web
Ainar Garipov <gugl.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Please no. Google Groups is awful, Reddit's /r/golang is where I get
> most of my Go news. I don't want to sift through a forum with no
> voting system, and awful and slow overly-JS-ed design.
stuff when they can just subscribe to this mailing list and get mail
from it into their mailbox, and read/write mails there using convenient
mail reader (with proper threads, searching tagging custom mail folders
and so on).
Google Groups is just a web front-end for those dirt-old but trusty
mailing lists of the 90's ;-)
Bogdan Bursuc
Nov 25, 2016, 3:30:28 AM11/25/16
to Konstantin Khomoutov, Ainar Garipov, golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
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Thanks,
Bogdan I. Bursuc
Axel Wagner
Nov 25, 2016, 3:53:31 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
So 2¢:
a) I dislike reddit, it has a pretty bad culture of voting by opinion, drowning out opinions seen as different from the mob and it just, in general, has too many assholes (not /r/golang specifically, but reddit in general).
b) I think one good argument for /r/golang over other things (like the go forum or whatever) is the cross-pollination. It allows non- or part-time gophers to voice their opinions and be heard in the go community and it allows full-time gophers that hang around on reddit (largely due to /r/golang) to also go to other subreddits and bring the go-perspective there. I think that is good, when /r/programming once again decides that go is the devil incarnated because it doesn't have ADT.
c) I would find it sad, if /r/golang (or /r/whatevsgolang) wouldn't be official anymore, because that also means that the go CoC doesn't apply anymore or at least wouldn't be enforceable for lack of a good escalation path. As people pointed out, it is already kind of hard to moderate and keep in check, I believe this would make it worse.
d) What /u/prez did was unconscionable and it makes it very hard to defend the continuing existence of reddit as a whole; before it could at least pretend to be a tool of free speech as a fig-leaf for allowing the spread of all the hate. But this argument falters completely in the face of censoring dissenting users content without consent.
FWIW, if /r/golang closes, I'll likely not frequent reddit anymore and will eventually delete my account; I have /r/golang in my RSS-reader and if it doesn't draw me there, I'll just forget over time. That's not an argument, but it illustrates (b) somewhat.
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Bogdan Bursuc <bogdanb...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 10:20 AM Konstantin Khomoutov <flat...@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 23:59:18 -0800 (PST)
Ainar Garipov <gugl.z...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Please no. Google Groups is awful, Reddit's /r/golang is where I get
> most of my Go news. I don't want to sift through a forum with no
> voting system, and awful and slow overly-JS-ed design.
On a side note I continue to wonder why people struggle with crappy web
stuff when they can just subscribe to this mailing list and get mail
from it into their mailbox, and read/write mails there using convenient
mail reader (with proper threads, searching tagging custom mail folders
and so on).
Google Groups is just a web front-end for those dirt-old but trusty
mailing lists of the 90's ;-)
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--Thanks,Bogdan I. Bursuc
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Markus Zimmermann
Nov 25, 2016, 4:08:14 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Isn't this like saying a whole country is bad because of its president/leader? A whole community cannot be bad because of what one person did, nor can a whole company because of its CEO. golang-nuts/-dev would not be closed if one Google person behaves bad. We are a community of our own, we are the Go community as stated in https://golang.org/conduct and the CEO of Reddit is afaik not part of that community.
I am not a Reddit user, but I vote for making /r/golang unofficial, I do not know what that entails, and maybe transferring moderator rights to other people.
I am not a Reddit user, but I vote for making /r/golang unofficial, I do not know what that entails, and maybe transferring moderator rights to other people.
wilk
Nov 25, 2016, 4:37:57 AM11/25/16
to golan...@googlegroups.com
It could be fine to have a comp.lang.go.announce like in python, open to
external gophers.
--
William
Aram Hăvărneanu
Nov 25, 2016, 4:39:28 AM11/25/16
to Brad Fitzpatrick, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 7:28 AM, Brad Fitzpatrick <brad...@golang.org> wrote:
> I also want to understand whether the Go project considers /r/golang an
> official space. The fact that the sidebar says "If you encounter an issue,
> please mail con...@golang.org" suggests to me that it IS an official space.
And this is a mistake. The /r/golang reddit was not created as an
> I also want to understand whether the Go project considers /r/golang an
> official space. The fact that the sidebar says "If you encounter an issue,
> please mail con...@golang.org" suggests to me that it IS an official space.
official Go space. The late Uriel created it, then gave mod power to
some people, including /u/rsc from the Go team, and to some other
people not from the Go team. People from the Go team had no
involvement there **whatsoever** until very, very recently. Even now
their involvement has been minimal.
At some point some /r/golang moderator from the Go team abused his
power and decreed the /r/golang an official Go space. Nobody was
asked, it was a hostile takeover. Some voiced their concern, but not
for long, because, after all, the Go team are not terrible people and
as I already mentioned, the Go team still continued to not have any
significant level of involvement there.
> But if Go DOES consider it an official space, then I would argue it shouldn't be.
> And in this case, we need to decide what to do with /r/golang
> (make it private, delete it, pass on ownership and request that
> it be labeled unofficial in the sidebar, etc).
not officially associated with the Go project.
--
Aram Hăvărneanu
Aram Hăvărneanu
Nov 25, 2016, 4:49:59 AM11/25/16
to Brad Fitzpatrick, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds
Hey, I have a better idea, why not delete golang.org, and the Go
language itself? After all, it is hosted on Google servers, and Google
engages in unethical and illegal behavior:
https://www.quora.com/What-are-examples-of-Google-acting-unethically-or-illegally
--
Aram Hăvărneanu
language itself? After all, it is hosted on Google servers, and Google
engages in unethical and illegal behavior:
https://www.quora.com/What-are-examples-of-Google-acting-unethically-or-illegally
--
Aram Hăvărneanu
Aram Hăvărneanu
Nov 25, 2016, 5:04:03 AM11/25/16
to Brad Fitzpatrick, Matt Joiner, golang-nuts, Andrew Gerrand, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Russ Cox, Francesc Campoy Flores, David Symonds
The disconnect between what the Go team acting as moderators think
about themselves, and what the reddit thinks about the moderator is
disconcerting, and it proves that these people are the wrong people
for the job.
Because some guy (not associated with either Go or /r/golang) abused
his power, their solution is to abuse **their** moderator powers to
nuke /r/golang from orbit (shit, who cares about the 25k+ people
there, let's not even inform them). Wow.
A moderator is a servant to a community and answers to it. He is not
the *owner* of a community. His job is to remove spam and ban
spammers, not to delete reddits.
You are not the owners of /r/golang. The people there are. You are
some guys hired to do a job. If you don't want it anymore, no problem,
I'm sure there are plenty of candidate replacements. If you don't like
/r/golang, no problem, there's a community for every type of
individual. It does not mean you have the right to delete it.
--
Aram Hăvărneanu
about themselves, and what the reddit thinks about the moderator is
disconcerting, and it proves that these people are the wrong people
for the job.
Because some guy (not associated with either Go or /r/golang) abused
his power, their solution is to abuse **their** moderator powers to
nuke /r/golang from orbit (shit, who cares about the 25k+ people
there, let's not even inform them). Wow.
A moderator is a servant to a community and answers to it. He is not
the *owner* of a community. His job is to remove spam and ban
spammers, not to delete reddits.
You are not the owners of /r/golang. The people there are. You are
some guys hired to do a job. If you don't want it anymore, no problem,
I'm sure there are plenty of candidate replacements. If you don't like
/r/golang, no problem, there's a community for every type of
individual. It does not mean you have the right to delete it.
--
Aram Hăvărneanu
prade...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 5:25:53 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
+1 , delete it. Or let some other group take care of it and remove any official connection / link to golang.org . That farce lasted long enough. Let's concentrate on promoting Go the right way, not on a forum full of toxicity and shoddy admins. Stackoverflow is a better way to ask focused question ,and goggle-groups is enough for serious discussions. I'd like to see more Go activity on Google + too .
Harrison Kelly
Nov 25, 2016, 6:15:58 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
Individually, I get all my Go news (including this) through /r/golang so please don't.
Strategically, I think deleting it does more harm than good.
I get that sometimes principles should trump practicality, but this specific problem seems very minor. By keeping it open, we aren't confining the CEO's actions. But we are [re]inviting 25,000+ people to participate in the Go community, which is a heck of a limb to cut off on principle.
Adnaan Badr
Nov 25, 2016, 6:30:24 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Please don't ! It's a neat resource to discover new projects. And one of the forums I send newbies to, so that they could get a feel for real world Go projects and questions. I am sure people will volunteer to moderate if the current moderators don't want to.
Seth Ammons
Nov 25, 2016, 7:36:40 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
As a /r/golang user, I remember being delighted to find out that actual core contributors came in and commented. I never never occurred to me that the subreddit would have been considered official.
tacod...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 9:41:33 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
It is not up to the Go team to decide where the community chooses to spend their time. The arrogance in previous statements is staggering.
The CEO changed something on a totally unrelated subreddit. Sounds like that incident is used to clean house for Go (get rid of Reddit); a political move that is simply not up to the Go team. Users may choose to leave reddit over the incident (personally I don't care at all), but you cannot force your opinion onto the users.
Anyways, I bet the subreddit would be recreated quickly so that the current moderators achieve nothing in the end but lose their priviledges.
The CEO changed something on a totally unrelated subreddit. Sounds like that incident is used to clean house for Go (get rid of Reddit); a political move that is simply not up to the Go team. Users may choose to leave reddit over the incident (personally I don't care at all), but you cannot force your opinion onto the users.
Anyways, I bet the subreddit would be recreated quickly so that the current moderators achieve nothing in the end but lose their priviledges.
Henrik Johansson
Nov 25, 2016, 10:08:26 AM11/25/16
to tacod...@gmail.com, golang-nuts
Relax, it was a primarily personal statement from Brad and he wanted to to see if it was shared by others.
I am more baffled that not everyone agrees with him but that again is a personal view...
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Tieson Molly
Nov 25, 2016, 10:14:11 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
I personally like the /r/golang subreddit for finding new projects or blog posts related to Go. I prefer Google groups for more discussion.
codep...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 10:27:15 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
While I understand where this is coming from, I'm asking not to do this. Given the recent amount of "drama" in Go community, I don't think it would be wise to add additional dividing factors. If Go Core team is concerned about their messages integrity, I think we can just remove "Official Go" title, and post official responses in other places (blog?). The removal of /r/golang will, at best, result in new "unofficial" subreddit. At worse it will be long a bloody debate with Reddit administration about who actually own rights to /golang sub. In both cases, people will lose trust and this will result in additional communication issues.
Currently /r/golang is mostly used for "show the project\library" and "ask for help \ clarification". Personally, I found several interesting projects during my "watch RSS" daily routine, and I would really very sad to loose it. It also makes easier to contact with other subreddits when the interesting discussion arises. It also allows some additional analytics for parsers. And while I agree that Reddit has people who have nothing but hate, the amount of decent and civilized persons who just like to talk on a single platform, instead of multiple separate ones, is much bigger there.
Again - the "admins are editing messages" is bad, but deleting sub and those forcing many people to find a new place, or stop communicating with the community altogether, is worse. I think in times like this we should prove our first goal of CoC - "Treat everyone with respect and kindness".
Sorry for my english in advance.
Dmitry.
пятница, 25 ноября 2016 г., 2:53:32 UTC+3 пользователь bradfitz написал:
Currently /r/golang is mostly used for "show the project\library" and "ask for help \ clarification". Personally, I found several interesting projects during my "watch RSS" daily routine, and I would really very sad to loose it. It also makes easier to contact with other subreddits when the interesting discussion arises. It also allows some additional analytics for parsers. And while I agree that Reddit has people who have nothing but hate, the amount of decent and civilized persons who just like to talk on a single platform, instead of multiple separate ones, is much bigger there.
Again - the "admins are editing messages" is bad, but deleting sub and those forcing many people to find a new place, or stop communicating with the community altogether, is worse. I think in times like this we should prove our first goal of CoC - "Treat everyone with respect and kindness".
Sorry for my english in advance.
Dmitry.
пятница, 25 ноября 2016 г., 2:53:32 UTC+3 пользователь bradfitz написал:
Joubin Houshyar
Nov 25, 2016, 10:29:17 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 11:39:38 PM UTC-5, Nate Finch wrote:
Yes, the CEO did a really shitty thing. If we burned down the website of every company where someone in power did something shitty, we'd have no websites left.
If we do burn down the website of every company that betrayed the social trust and contract we'll be making room for alternatives run by responsible actors, and letting future entrepenoodles know exactly what the expected norms are in the information space.
Peter Mellett
Nov 25, 2016, 10:42:07 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
I have to agree with this poster.
On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 5:39:41 AM UTC, n8he...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm an experienced developer but reasonably new to Go.
Frankly nothing about the subreddit indicates that it's official. I suggest that the Go team withdraw from moderating the subreddit if they do not agree with recent events on reddit itself. Leave a note in the sidebar that it's an unofficial subreddit and allow the reddit /r/golang community to moderate.
Unnecessary politicking is unsavoury and makes Go feel like an unwelcoming community. I simply don't see how proposing to punish the community around your programming language is appropriate or considerate.
On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 5:39:41 AM UTC, n8he...@gmail.com wrote:
This is my first post here. I wouldn't have known about the thread if it weren't for r/golang.
I'm interested in learning more about the language, but as a very green hobbyist without much free time, much of my Go news comes from interesting tidbits that come up in gotimefm, hacker news, and most of all r/golang.
I would definitely be bummed if r/golang went away.
hrj....@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 10:42:08 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
Laughable, coming from a guy who has turned Livejournal into a Russian Intelligence collection tool.
Shut the fuck up already
Shut the fuck up already
georgy.do...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 10:42:10 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
I agree Reddit is a bit toxic place, but I also think it would be overreaction to delete /r/golang. I think it would be better to just mark it as 'unofficial' subreddit.
Community != CEO.
On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 1:53:32 AM UTC+2, bradfitz wrote:
Matt Proud
Nov 25, 2016, 10:42:11 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
While I find Reddit and the conduct on/around it to be vile and nonredeemable, /r/golang is a nice addition to the community whose positives have generally outweighed the negatives. Killing it unnecessarily fragments the Go community at-large — especially if no good alternative/transition can be offered. Apropos: We don't need that *now* after several acrimonious outbursts of immaturity in the past few weeks hurt collective morale.
Both golang-nuts and /r/golang serve two distinct purposes. I have no problem with them co-existing. Please don't suggest Slack. The moves toward that have caused enough personal annoyance.
That's my _foif Rappen_ for whatever its worth.
- Matt
Both golang-nuts and /r/golang serve two distinct purposes. I have no problem with them co-existing. Please don't suggest Slack. The moves toward that have caused enough personal annoyance.
That's my _foif Rappen_ for whatever its worth.
- Matt
schust...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 10:42:23 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
This move is just petty and overreactive, considering the /r/golang community was not asked prior to this proposal, I was informed about this through a post from a non-moderator user.
How am I supposed to trust you ever again to not just delete a forum or any platform of discourse because someone did something you didn't like?
I'd ask you to step down in a role as a moderator due to an obvious betreyal of trust, but you seem to be doing that already.
How am I supposed to trust you ever again to not just delete a forum or any platform of discourse because someone did something you didn't like?
I'd ask you to step down in a role as a moderator due to an obvious betreyal of trust, but you seem to be doing that already.
dw...@dlsmi.com
Nov 25, 2016, 10:42:24 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
The community makes these decisons, not the Mods otherwise what makes you different than the CEO.
tho...@producerism.com
Nov 25, 2016, 10:42:24 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
google+? how about we just move to a MySpace group?
Reto Brunner
Nov 25, 2016, 10:42:24 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
God no!
Only because bradfitz has a problem with Reddit doesn't mean that all others do
Squatting /r/golang and not handing moderation over would be a very unfair move to those who liked *and still like* Reddit
If you don't wanna be a mod, fair enough, step down but leave us in peace!
Vincent Rischmann
Nov 25, 2016, 10:42:24 AM11/25/16
to golan...@googlegroups.com
> It's a wretched hive of scum and villainy. The Go subreddit was the only thing similar to human and it is downright painful most of the time.
Way to go insulting everyone on Reddit. I'm neither scum or a "villain".
I also spend a lot of time on /r/golang and it's nowhere near painful, I
have no idea what you're seeing.
You should not delete the subreddit, it doesn't belong to the Go team.
The content comes entirely from the community and it wasn't an official
space until you made it so, asking nobody.
Give up control, ask that the new moderators state it's an unofficial
community in the sidebar and then stop caring about it.
Way to go insulting everyone on Reddit. I'm neither scum or a "villain".
I also spend a lot of time on /r/golang and it's nowhere near painful, I
have no idea what you're seeing.
You should not delete the subreddit, it doesn't belong to the Go team.
The content comes entirely from the community and it wasn't an official
space until you made it so, asking nobody.
Give up control, ask that the new moderators state it's an unofficial
community in the sidebar and then stop caring about it.
james...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 10:42:24 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
What a knee-jerk reaction. An admin does one stupid thing so it's suddenly time to abandon one of the most popular websites in the world?
Honestly, I don't think the subreddit should ever have been "official". No one expects anything on reddit to be an official support channel. It wasn't created as one - instead it was slowly taken over by members of the Go team and turned into one.
Reading this thread, there's clearly contempt for /r/golang from the Go team and high-profile members of the community, and that's really sad to see, because it shows contempt for a large part of the Go community that use it.
The current set of moderators do the job of moderating it, but nothing more - it's just an annoying distraction for them. /r/Golang has its issues, but it's very possible for a programming language subreddit to foster a great community, and plenty of them do. However, that takes time and effort on the part of the moderation team, which frankly I don't think the current team is able to provide.
Hand the subreddit over to the community - everyone will be happier. A reddit admin edited extremely insulting posts aimed directly at him and calling him a paeodphile is not a reason to delete /r/golang, it's simply a bad excuse.
Honestly, I don't think the subreddit should ever have been "official". No one expects anything on reddit to be an official support channel. It wasn't created as one - instead it was slowly taken over by members of the Go team and turned into one.
Reading this thread, there's clearly contempt for /r/golang from the Go team and high-profile members of the community, and that's really sad to see, because it shows contempt for a large part of the Go community that use it.
The current set of moderators do the job of moderating it, but nothing more - it's just an annoying distraction for them. /r/Golang has its issues, but it's very possible for a programming language subreddit to foster a great community, and plenty of them do. However, that takes time and effort on the part of the moderation team, which frankly I don't think the current team is able to provide.
Hand the subreddit over to the community - everyone will be happier. A reddit admin edited extremely insulting posts aimed directly at him and calling him a paeodphile is not a reason to delete /r/golang, it's simply a bad excuse.
nona...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 10:42:25 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
The most immature and unethical thing I've seen today is that this thread exists. Stamping your feet over something as inane as a mod abusing his powers on an internet forum while simultaneously abusing your powers as a mod threatening to delete an entire community over something out of their hands and that which has 0 impact on them.
Please definitely delete your reddit account and take your hysterics somewhere else so 1 of the hundreds of other people who would be happy to mod golang can, and leave the community to live on in peace.
Please definitely delete your reddit account and take your hysterics somewhere else so 1 of the hundreds of other people who would be happy to mod golang can, and leave the community to live on in peace.
Jaana Burcu Dogan
Nov 25, 2016, 10:57:22 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Please, find a better solution. Don't delete years of discussion and curated content. And, the Go subreddit is the work of the community over there and this question should be directed at them.
Minimizing the involvement and making it a unofficial space should be the first attempt. An unofficial and unmaintained r/golang doesn't sound as bad as a deleted one.
(As a side note, I am scared how our generation has normalized ethically corrupt actions from the authority and trying to hack around it rather than leaving in protest. I stopped using Reddit under my own name many years ago due to similar reasons.)
peter.k...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 11:09:28 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Hey all, I read reddit.com/r/golang regularly, and so I'd really hope to have an equal or better alternative to take its place if the group is considering moving the discussion.
I'm happy to offer the Pressly platform as a potential successor to the reddit group discussion. It's a modern group discussion + mailing list product to make sharing and discovery easy, powered by a community of contributors. You could even host it on golang.org, ie. https://hub.golang.org. We're happy to offer it for free. You can see an example of the platform at: www.golang.to which we use for the Go Toronto user group. The advantage over reddit: compose lists of links or original posts, built-in newsletter digest that features contributed posts on a daily basis, better social sharing/analytics and improved analytics in general for which content is most engaging. We're also working on features to better recognizes the top contributors of the week.
-Peter
Michael Christenson II
Nov 25, 2016, 11:10:29 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
I'm baffled at the people that agree to lessen the voice of Go. If Reddit is not suited to your taste or morals, that's understandable, continue down the road of creating an official alternative, but don't shut down a positive space in a very large world because you find the actions of the owner of that world distasteful. It would be a vicious attack against those using it and serve no point outside of political maneuvering. Don't hurt the community, simply step down please.
erick.ro...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 11:10:37 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
The depressing unintended consequence of this is that a rift has been created between community leaders and r/golang users (Who happened to see the post).
I recently entered r/golang because I already used a couple other subreddits that perform a function similar to an RSS feed. Simple content aggregation. But I was already using the platform so r/golang became a valuable entry point. Removing this entry point, at the very least, seems shortsighted.
Coming back to the riff: The unintended consequence of actions such as proposing the removal of the subreddit, outside of the subreddit, no less. Is that you entrench people in their points. Reddit people see this as a personal action against them, they come retaliate here. People here feel attacked, they entrench themselves in their views. Essentially this creates an "Us vs Them" mentality.
As community leaders you must try to be aware of the impact your words will have on said community. I am still a beginner. r/golang was my entry point but the likely logical evolution would've likely put me either here or in the Google Group eventually as I got more comfortable with the language. Now, this seems less probable. Not because I think the discussion here is less, or more valuable, but because when I was in reddit and then "We faced destruction! Together!" against "The Go team members who wanted to destroy us!", this creates a very ugly bias.
Fragmentation of a community, however unintended, should be something that leadership should very consciously try to avoid. Rooting people in their communities, effectively hamstringing horizontal mobility between platforms due to bias is a serious problem.
Even if you see the reddit community as an inferior option compared to the others, it's important realize that it serves a purpose. As leaders you must try to be more magnanimous and practice tolerance. In the end we're all participating in one way or another because we love the language, and want to learn and see more.
Additional Resource:
HackerNews is also talking about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13036890
I recently entered r/golang because I already used a couple other subreddits that perform a function similar to an RSS feed. Simple content aggregation. But I was already using the platform so r/golang became a valuable entry point. Removing this entry point, at the very least, seems shortsighted.
Coming back to the riff: The unintended consequence of actions such as proposing the removal of the subreddit, outside of the subreddit, no less. Is that you entrench people in their points. Reddit people see this as a personal action against them, they come retaliate here. People here feel attacked, they entrench themselves in their views. Essentially this creates an "Us vs Them" mentality.
As community leaders you must try to be aware of the impact your words will have on said community. I am still a beginner. r/golang was my entry point but the likely logical evolution would've likely put me either here or in the Google Group eventually as I got more comfortable with the language. Now, this seems less probable. Not because I think the discussion here is less, or more valuable, but because when I was in reddit and then "We faced destruction! Together!" against "The Go team members who wanted to destroy us!", this creates a very ugly bias.
Fragmentation of a community, however unintended, should be something that leadership should very consciously try to avoid. Rooting people in their communities, effectively hamstringing horizontal mobility between platforms due to bias is a serious problem.
Even if you see the reddit community as an inferior option compared to the others, it's important realize that it serves a purpose. As leaders you must try to be more magnanimous and practice tolerance. In the end we're all participating in one way or another because we love the language, and want to learn and see more.
Additional Resource:
HackerNews is also talking about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13036890
Tom Cameron
Nov 25, 2016, 11:22:13 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
This is the most ridiculous, short sighted, and I'll advised thing I've seen suggested on this list for a while.
Are we also going to remove every article written about go in a newspaper, magazine, or blog because editors and journalists did something idiotic? Because if that's the case, we're going to have to do a lot of cleanup. And we're basically going to have to burn hackernews to the ground (not a bad idea, but I'd still have a problem with it).
If you don't support what happens on Reddit (this is far from their first scandal) then don't use it. That's the best part of freedom of choice. But I don't see too many alternative forums for people to use, so you're going to have to come up with something better than mailing lists and news groups before pulling the plug.
Are we also going to remove every article written about go in a newspaper, magazine, or blog because editors and journalists did something idiotic? Because if that's the case, we're going to have to do a lot of cleanup. And we're basically going to have to burn hackernews to the ground (not a bad idea, but I'd still have a problem with it).
If you don't support what happens on Reddit (this is far from their first scandal) then don't use it. That's the best part of freedom of choice. But I don't see too many alternative forums for people to use, so you're going to have to come up with something better than mailing lists and news groups before pulling the plug.
Michael Christenson II
Nov 25, 2016, 11:37:59 AM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
Proof of the vibrancy of the community can be partially established by how many posts you received on this post, versus the Reddit thread. While this post is one of the most responded to posts on this user group of late, the comments on the Reddit thread dwarf it by far. Consider the impact of that in your decisions please.
idi...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2016, 1:07:55 PM11/25/16
to golang-nuts
So CEO spends an hour modifying some comments that were personally insulting him, yes pretty bad, but makes no sense to conclude site is bullshit because of that. It is not like he even hid the fact, just admitted it for no reason. Still bad, but could be a lot lot lot worse.
Micky
Nov 25, 2016, 1:21:20 PM11/25/16
to Brad Fitzpatrick, golang-nuts
I don't think people realize the gravity of the situation, of what Brad pointed out.
If I said something (which in reality I never said) and if someone responds back to me in a way (which they never did), it could have serious implications on the parties conversing on a topic -- particularly when the nature of conversation is, software!(I know people will say they are other mediums of communication but think of security issues, etc.)
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 4:53 AM, Brad Fitzpatrick <brad...@golang.org> wrote:
In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see dozen news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.That is so beyond unethical and immature, I no longer want anything to do with that site. I will be deleting my account on Reddit after backing up my content, and I will no longer be a moderator of /r/golang.If other moderators of /r/golang feel strongly that it should remain, I suppose you're welcome to keep it going.But if the other moderators want to abandon it and focus our conversation elsewhere (or build a replacement), I'm happy to just delete /r/golang.Opinions?
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Nate Finch
Nov 25, 2016, 1:26:23 PM11/25/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Please note that Brad has since posted on Hacker News that he no longer wants to delete r/golang, but simply make it unofficial: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13037636
I think this is perfectly fine. Honestly, I don't think many people felt that anything on reddit was official.
Graham Anderson
Nov 25, 2016, 10:51:46 PM11/25/16
to Brad Fitzpatrick, David Symonds, Chris Broadfoot, Adam Langley, Francesc Campoy Flores, Brian Ketelsen, Andrew Gerrand, Russ Cox, golang-nuts, Damian Gryski
Hello,
I'm abjectly torn. I understand and agree that there are strong moral boundaries and trust realms that have been broken.
Simply put, reddit has become digg, the shame...
I also understand (and firmly believe) that the moderation of the reddit /r/golang community has been lackadaisical at best. At its worst it's negligent.
It also exists solely at *our* pleasure... Not yours, little blue Google gophers. Except maybe Damian Gryski, to whom you owe a debt of gratitude.
Graham
Phil Snowberger
Nov 26, 2016, 1:27:05 AM11/26/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
What /u/spez did was not "inane" or "immature". If he had replied to the comments, insulting the commenter's mother's face or something, that would be inane and immature.
Modifying a user's comments, putting words in their mouth, is fundamentally a completely different thing. It is intellectually dishonest, unconscionable, disgusting.
as....@gmail.com
Nov 26, 2016, 10:26:57 PM11/26/16
to golang-nuts
I don't use the site, nor understand how any immediate conflicts of interest can manifest based on the CEO's actions that justify removing the subreddit or locking it down.
Why not add a community to the official golang.org site and let the subreddit die of natural causes? It would be a favorable outcome if Reddit ever disappeared in the future to the hand of some other site: no content would need to be moved and the language's community posts would be self-contained.
Why not add a community to the official golang.org site and let the subreddit die of natural causes? It would be a favorable outcome if Reddit ever disappeared in the future to the hand of some other site: no content would need to be moved and the language's community posts would be self-contained.
vac...@gmail.com
Nov 28, 2016, 1:42:48 AM11/28/16
to golang-nuts, f...@deneb.enyo.de, brad...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org, bket...@gmail.com, dgr...@gmail.com
On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 6:26:40 PM UTC+13, Dave Cheney wrote:
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Florian Weimer <f...@deneb.enyo.de> wrote:
> * Brad Fitzpatrick:
>
>> In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see
>> dozen news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.
>>
>> That is so beyond unethical and immature,
>
> Was it immature because they didn't make any money out of it, at least
> not directly? Modifying user-generated content without informed
> consent is standard business practice. You must be aware of that.
> (Many people who read this will see totally misleading ads next to
> this post, for instance, and I obviously never agreed to that.)
>
> It was a bad prank for sure. But it was just a prank.
Do you normalise the behaviour of all men, or only those at the C level?
>
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Art Mellor
Nov 28, 2016, 10:02:57 AM11/28/16
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I think some readers are missing the OP's attempt to invoke the wise words of Obi Wan Kenobi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0znNiN0lYAQ
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 8:57:22 PM UTC-6, Nathaniel Nutter wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0znNiN0lYAQ
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 8:57:22 PM UTC-6, Nathaniel Nutter wrote:
Are all 25,171 subscribers scum and villainy? As a someone that reads /r/golang I've somehow managed not to come to the same conclusion.
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 5:56:47 PM UTC-6, Brian Ketelsen wrote:Kill it.
It's a wretched hive of scum and villainy. The Go subreddit was the only thing similar to human and it is downright painful most of the time.
On 11/24/2016 6:54:25 PM, Brad Fitzpatrick <brad...@golang.org> wrote:
[+bketelson, dgryski]
On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Brad Fitzpatrick <brad...@golang.org> wrote:
In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see dozen news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.
Andy Balholm
Nov 28, 2016, 10:32:11 AM11/28/16
to vac...@gmail.com, golang-nuts, f...@deneb.enyo.de, Brad Fitzpatrick, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org, bket...@gmail.com, dgr...@gmail.com
I took the usage of “men” in that comment to be gender-neutral. I read it as “Are you rankist?", not as “Are you sexist or rankist?”
(I don’t know if rankist is a word, but I mean someone who discriminates on the basis of rank.)
Andy
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Craig
Nov 28, 2016, 10:49:45 AM11/28/16
to Andy Balholm, vac...@gmail.com, golang-nuts, f...@deneb.enyo.de, Brad Fitzpatrick, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org, bket...@gmail.com, dgr...@gmail.com
I took the same interpretation ("rankist", not sexist). Still an ad hominem.
Dan Mullineux
Nov 29, 2016, 3:16:22 AM11/29/16
to golang-nuts
I completely agree with Brad on this.
I also closed my account the day it happened.
nwjl...@googlemail.com
Nov 29, 2016, 10:13:32 AM11/29/16
to golang-nuts, a...@golang.org, cb...@golang.org, a...@golang.org, r...@golang.org, cam...@golang.org, dsym...@golang.org
Just don't moderate it. No need to go nuclear.
On Thursday, 24 November 2016 23:53:32 UTC, bradfitz wrote:
In light of the CEO of Reddit admitting to editing user comments (see dozen news stories today), I propose we delete the /r/golang subreddit.
aus...@apriendeau.com
Dec 1, 2016, 1:28:28 AM12/1/16
to golang-nuts
I don't weigh in often because the Go team has been very good about vetting their options before executing them. I want to highlight that because that is what I feel Brad is doing here. I do not think they are going nuclear and pulling the trigger. I appreciate that we are consider the ethics involved with this issue.
With that being said, I do think we need a viable alternative for a source of news whether hosted by the go team or unofficial. I do not want to continue to use Reddit even though I was an avid user.
I do not see an issue with parking the subreddit as there are several reasons not to delete it.
With that being said, I do think we need a viable alternative for a source of news whether hosted by the go team or unofficial. I do not want to continue to use Reddit even though I was an avid user.
I do not see an issue with parking the subreddit as there are several reasons not to delete it.
Axel Wagner
Dec 1, 2016, 2:51:34 AM12/1/16
to aus...@apriendeau.com, golang-nuts
There is also HN currently in existence, as much as I despise the interface.
But I would like to warn against building a go-specific (or only adopted by go) solution to this; the cross-pollination with other communities is a specific advantage of reddit that isn't just a technical restriction that can be re-implemented.
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